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Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Druckversion

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Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 13.01.2011

Hi Forum Friends

I have a transmission question again.

Can a Unimog transmission be built into the MB Trac 1000. I can get a 416 gearbox for a very good price and thought about building it over into my MB Trac 1000 as the transmission is not good in this vehicle.

I do understand that there would be alot to build over like the Clutch Housing, Cascade and the PTO, but is it possible and will the ratios not be a problem.

Alternatively would I be able to source parts from the 416 Transmission like syncro, shafts etc etc?

Regards,
Peter

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - MichiKopka - 13.01.2011

it will not work ...

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - holgi63 - 14.01.2011

Hi Peter,

the MBtrac 1000 was working with a UNIMOG Gearbox UG2/30, the Unimog 416 had a UG2.27. If You want to replace it, You might need an Unimog 417 but they were rare!
What is about repairing the drive?

To replace a UG2/30 with a UG2/27 would result in defects because the torque of the MBtrac 1000 will destroy it.

In principle it might be possible to put it into the MBtrac 1000 but You will have to do many adaptations and compromises. At first, the gear itself must be modified because in the Unimog the gear works as a 6-speed gear and all speeds shiftet with one lever. The switch plate has to be modifieed or replaced by a plate for 2 x 4 speed. Next the levers of the UG2/27 would pass through the drivers cab between the legs of the driver. For this case the cab has to bee modified too. I'm not quite sure if the flanges for rear and front wheel drive have exactly the same position, also the flanges to fit the gear in the chassis.
A UG2/27 in very good condition might work with 95 DIN HP for a while but the auxiliary drive is torque restricted and in the Unimog it was not built in above 84HP.

Greetings
Holger

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 14.01.2011

Hello Holger

Thank you for your response.

The problems with trying to fix the transmission is that there is no service backup for the MB Tracs in South Africa. Mercedes Benz South Africa no longer offer backup for these vehicles either. So I would ultimately end up having to source the parts and import them which could prove quite costly.

I was actaully trying to find a cheaper alternative.

This specific Trac was bought to be restored and I have only now recently been able to fully assess what is all wrong with it.

The auxiliary gear lever jumps out of gear in stage 1 and stage 2 after selecting a gear o the main shift lever and attempting to move. It does not do this in reverse though. Also, when in stage 1 and the main shift lever is in neatral, the shift lever has a slight movement to it and it almost appears that there is a bent shaft or worn bearing in the transmission though. There is no abnormal noise from the transmission when in stage 1. In stage 2 and the main shift lever is in neutral, there is quite a bit more noise from the transmission.

Based on this I would believe that there is quite a substantial problem with the transmission and therfore possibly quite costly.

Our SA military used many Unimog 416's (OM 352) many years ago and there are therfore many of them still around and second hand parts are readilly available.

I was hoping that it would be possible to take one of those basic transmissions and just build over the other necessary parts onto it.

Would there be parts from this 416 transmission that could work on the track transmission i.e syncro's, shafts etc?

Regards,
Peter

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - holgi63 - 14.01.2011

Hi Peter,

I'm not quite sure in every details but most of the parts in the UG2/30 cannot be replaced with UG2/27 parts. Especially the synchro-rings were modified when superseding the UG2/27 to the UG2/30 because just the synchronisation of the UG2/27 had deficits which were fixed with completely new parts in the new gear.

It seems as if shift collars and bearings of the most used gear wheels are worn out...

Are You able to make a detailed diagnosis of the parts which have to be replaced? The repair manual is available in english language and when You have a list of the parts, we may help You to get them new or used in good condition. Some of the parts like bearings are standard and available everywhere. Taxes and insurances for the transportation to Your location may be a problem but problems are there to be solved. We have some very good mechanics in our forum and many adresses for parts and with the help of those who can translate between You and them all, it may be possible to have Your MBtrac repaired!

greetings to Your wonderful home country (a friend of mine was in South Africa just a few weeks ago and I think I must see it also)

Holger

workshop manual: http://www.buchundbild.de/product_info.php?info=p73_MBtrac-Workshop-Manual-440-441.html

it also may be possible to get the complete gear to germany to have it rapaired here...

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 15.01.2011

Hi Holger

I will be removing the transmission during the week but am not sure when I will start to break it down to check for the problems. We will start proceding with the rest of the restoration in the meantime. I will get back to you once we have opened it up and removed the damaged parts.

I did order a full set of manuals from Buch & Bild and received them about 2 weeks ago. They have proven very helpfull up till now.

Thank you for your input, at least I will not be wasting money and time on expirementing with the 416 box only to find it is not the answer.

I will keep you in the loop.

Regards,
Peter.

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 16.01.2011

Hi

Can someone please tell me what transmission is in the 1100 (443.160) as well as in the 1500 (443.162)? Is it also a UG2/30?

Regards,
Peter

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - wolli - 16.01.2011

Hi,

the 1100 from the big series (443) and the 1300 and 1500 have a UG3/40 gearbox. The last models from the 443 series (1300 turbo, 1400 turbo, 1600 turbo and 1800 intercooler) all have either the UG3/40 or the UG3/65. Both dont fit into the 1000 or the 1100 from the 441 series.

Regards
Wolfgang

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 16.01.2011

Hi Wolfgang

I am considering putting the re-build on my 1000 on the side for a bit untill later this year and am now considering another tractor, being a 1100 or 1500 (both 443 series).

Would the UG3/40 be a stronger and more reliable transmission. I am asking this as I might be interested in buying a 1100 or a 1500 in the 443 series.

Both are in very good condition but the hours are quite high. The 1500 has 13000 hours on it but it actually looks superb and is mechanically very good. It has only been used for sparying crops. I am just concerned about the general wear over 13000 hours and by big concern of course is the transmission. It is an 1984 model.

If the tractor has only been doing light work should I be concerned with 13000 hours?

Regards,
Peter

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - wolli - 16.01.2011

(16.01.2011, 14:12)Gillcor schrieb:  Would the UG3/40 be a stronger and more reliable transmission.

Some say yes, but i haven't met anybody who said the opposite.
Personally i can't say anything about this, because i don't have a 443 model on my own.

It also depends on the work that the trac has done in the last 13000 hours. If it was only light work as you said, then it shouldn't be a huge problem.
Here in Germany, rust is a big problem at tracs which did spraying tasks.

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 16.01.2011

Hi.

This tractor has not had the sprayer mounted directly on it so rust is not an issue.

What would the approximate value of 1500 (tractor only) be in Germany with such high hours. (without the spryer unit). This specific model doeas not have front lifts.

Regards,
Peter

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - wolli - 16.01.2011

Well, that depends... Its hard to say. I don't answer this type of questions normally but the price could be anything between 10000 and 25000 or 30000 EUR.

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 16.01.2011

Hi

Her is a picture of the 1500 I am interested in. Can you believe it has 13000 hours on it. It is not sold with the spray system.

What do you think?

   

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - wolli - 16.01.2011

Hi Peter,

this one looks really good. It's already repainted and probably reconditioned, so you can't really see the hours. If the engine and the transmission have no damages you would have to pay at least 25000 EUR in Germany I guess.

Regards,
Wolfgang

RE: Fit Unimog 416 Transmission to MB Trac 1000 - Gillcor - 16.01.2011

Hi Wolfgang

This is the original colour. The larger 443 - 1500 tractors were introduced in South Africa in this colour, for what reason I do not know. All 1500's I have seen here are this colour.

This tractor has not been rebuilt in any way but has been maticulously maintained. The seller wants what would equate to around 20 000 Euro, but my biggest concern is how much life is still left in it after 13000 hours.

It is immacculate for a '84 and everything works - I am a little confused at the moment. If it had fewer hours I think I would feel less concerned for the price.

Regards,
Peter